<i>Revenge of the Sith</i>

I saw a midnight showing of Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith. In a nutshell - bad acting and terrible writing destroy a potentially great story and excellent graphics. A more complete review to follow in a day or three.

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Scott, The last line of your


The last line of your post gave me a mental image that I really, really did not need. Besides, Hollywood as an institution, and possibly movies (as we now them them) as an art form, are slowly and inevitably dying anyway, so it behooves all of us to start looking elsewhere if we want quality. But hey, sometimes quality is only a secondary priority to reptile-brain-level entertainment, and for those times - hel-lo Hollywood! :grin:

Oh, and maybe it's the fact

Oh, and maybe it's the fact that I haven't seen a lot of movies of any kind lately, but I enjoyed the hell out of Revenge of the Sith. :smile:

Well you're not alone in

Well you're not alone in enjoying it. Apparently David, my brother, some chap at the New Yorker, and me are the only ones who thought it was awful. It's possible that we're wrong, but still I'd renounce libertarianism before I reconsidered that cinematic monstrosity.

The reaction of people baffles me. I fear for the fate of Hollywood if this is how the viewing audience responds to such an unprecedented streak of shit.

Lucas's comments about

Lucas's comments about rulers make me wonder how it is that his characters are even as believable as they are, if his ignorance of human nature is that deep.

I don't think Anakin's turning is all that implausible. It was amply set up in Episode 2 that, for all his good intentions and Jedi indoctrination, he is a hyperreactive and self-centered little shit who doesn't think too hard about the consequences of his actions, which is hardly unique in the history of people who were celebrities from early childhood. I thought it came across pretty well in Episode 3 that, even if he hadn't been wrestling with the interaction between the Force and his emotions, his feelings about Padme were taking on a rather twisted and creepy shape - at best, he would have been an overbearing father and absolute hell to live with.

Which makes me somewhat sympathetic to the objections the Jedi had. On the one hand, yes, the Jedi ban on doing it doesn't look good from a biological standpoint, but it makes sense given what the Jedi expect of their members (that is, an almost complete absence of normal human emotions). And as long as the rest of the galaxy continues with its copious reproduction, the Jedi would never run out of recruits.

Besides, once Palpatine got ample one-on-one access to Anakin it was all over anyway. His natural talents and strong will notwithstanding, Anakin has has the guile and strategic abilities of a Koosh ball. He got by on instincts before, but his obsession with Padme rendered them useless by halfway through Episode 3. Think about it - even the Darth Vader we saw in Episodes 4-6 was, underneath the cold menace, a hothead who made careless mistakes with some regularity.

Idealism + desperation + not thinking things through + Palpatine's astute manipulation = Anakin's turning was a fait accompli.

I saw it. Making

I saw it.

Making comparisons to the Holocaust would be exaggerating the deaths of six million Jews.

Here's something I've

Here's something I've wondered about for the last couple of films (& this may not be the best place to ask) but what what was so good about the republic, anyway? It seems to me it never once solved any of the problems asked of it. The Jedi & locals pretty much took care of everything. So when the Clone War started & the Jedi were fighting for the republic, I have to ask: what were they trying to accomplish? Are they in error or am I? (I think they are)

"But there’s probably no

"But there’s probably no better form of government than a good despot.”

You'd think Lucas would just follow this to the natural conclusion, that if a despot is the "best", or least bad, form of government, then there is no such thing as a good government.

Thanks. That's interesting,

Thanks. That's interesting, but it seems more rightist, in the fascist sense, than leftist. Do you have a source indicating his intention of using his fictional government as a specific criticism of the Bush administration?

"The United States,

"The United States, especially the media, is eating its own tail. The media has a way of leveling everything in its path, which is not good for a society. There's no respect for the office of the Presidency. Not that we need a king, but there's a reason why kings built large palaces, sat on thrones and wore rubies all over. There's a whole social need for that, not to oppress the masses, but to impress the masses and make them proud and allow them to feel good about their culture, their government and their ruler so that they are left feeling that a ruler has the right to rule over them, so that they feel good rather than disgusted about being ruled. In the past, the media basically worked for the state and was there to build the culture. Now, obviously, in some cases it got used in a wrong way and you ended up with the whole balance of power out of whack. But there's probably no better form of government than a good despot." -- George Lucas, 1999 New York Times Interview

In time of need, I turn to

In time of need, I turn to the Catallarchs for help.

I am as big a fan of Star Wars as anybody, but I didn't enjoy Episode 3 very much. Reason being, I didn't find the explanation for Anakin's turn to the dark side to make any sense. Perhaps somebody could explain it to me, but this is how I see it. I suppose I should warn of spoilers.

Why did Anakin turn?

Did he turn because Palpatine's dark teachings were the only way to save Padme? If this is the reason, it doesn't explain the mean streak. One would think the basically good Anakin would become at worst a reluctant Sith, showing remorse for the sins he had to commit for Padme.

Did he turn because he hates the Jedi? I don't see any reason why he would have come to hate the Jedi. They denied him Master rank, but only on account of his relationship with Palpatine, whom Anakin later confirms to be a Sith Lord, thus validating the Council's suspicions. The Jedi tried to kill Palpatine, but only because he was a Sith Lord, not because they wanted to take over the Republic. Anakin knew this as soon as he learned Palpatine was a Sith. The Jedi disapproved of his relationship with Padme, but is this really reason to declare war on them? Worst case scenario the Jedi would find out about Padme and have booted Anakin from the Order. Big deal. He's obviously not the type who would care.

Did he turn to the dark side because he preferred Palpatine's politics? Anakin demonstrated a preference for a more authoritarian government in Episode 2. But even if Anakin prefers an Empire and Emperor, shouldn't Palpatine as Emperor bother him? He knows Palpatine is a Sith which means he knows Palpatine was Dooku's master, which means he knows Palpatine orchestrated the Clone Wars which means he knows Palpatine is an evil fuck. None of this bothers him?

None of these explanations, taken seperately or combined, make any sense. I had always believed that the Emperor controlled Anakin's mind with his force powers, creating a spell that Luke later broke. This is a believable explanation, but not one that the movie really hinted at.

So what gives?

Speaking of film commentary

Speaking of film commentary on government, have any of you parents taken your childrent to see the (terrible) movie "Robots"?

It was not good, but there was one interesting thing about the film, namely there were *no* depictions of state authority.


(Spoiler alert for anyone who could possibly care)

The corporate security goons were never confronted by cops. The little people win at the end through their own efforts, with no help from the state. The public transit system depiction is humorous, but also reflects an organic and ever-changing character that is not indicative of central planning.

It underscores free market principles when the main robot-part-supply corporation decides to stop serving the very poor and coerce everyone into buying really expensive upgrades... so the hero starts fixing old broken robots who can't afford the new upgrades and he is absolutley swamped with business. Again, no mention of welfare or state intervention for those robots who can't afford the new upgrades. Classic.

And.. the resolution to the evil corporation's ways does not involve the state either. Victory is achieved by effecting a change in the corporate leadership. That's all.

I realize that this movie is just a stupid kids film, and not very good at that, but I think it may be a brilliant piece of free-market propoganda disguised as an anti-corporate screed to get past the Hollywood producers who probably thought they were making a film that criticizes the market.


I thought the movie was

I thought the movie was great. Maybe I am just blinded by nerdness?

Hmm, I disagree. I thought

Hmm, I disagree. I thought the acting was bad (though not universally), and the writing was bad (but better than the first 2). But at least this one had a story to tell, and did a half-decent job of telling it, which resulted in a half-decent movie - which is a vast improvement on I & II. I was moved by some parts of it, which was a lot more than I expected.

Heh, that's almost the

Heh, that's almost the uniform review I've seen:

"Not so good, but better than the other two!"

And the only memorable

And the only memorable line:

"So, that's how liberty dies; with thunderous applause."

Correction: "So this is how


"So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause."

Said by Padme while looking on the cheering Senate after Palpatine announces the dissolution of the Republic and the formation of the First Galactic Empire.

I agree it was better than

I agree it was better than the first two, but what is that saying?

Am I the only one who likes

Am I the only one who likes the underlying message about government in this? I have found no other libertarians that seem to think so. The movie is all about how centralized government leads to corruption. You'd think this crowd would dig that. I sure as hell did.

Lucas really slaps you in the face with it, too. There was that line about liberty, Padme questioning her loyalty and sympathizing with the seperatists, and the Jedi's dedication to democracy.

I don't think George Lucas is very libertarian, but I think being a businessman, he shares more with us than I might think. What are his usual political views?

As for the acting, it was overall good, except for the love scenes between Padme and Anakin. Blech. But I could FEEL Anakin's anger eminating from the screen at the end. His hatred oozed over the theater. That's good acting.

Plus, take this an compare

Plus, take this an compare it to your average sci-fi action movie. It has ten times more depth and life than most of them, even if it isn't up to the original series.

Lucas is real far left and

Lucas is real far left and has largely made it clear that the political content of Ep II & III is intended specifically as a criticism of the Bush administration. Which isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but the interviews leave one with the distinct impression that his problem isn't with big government per se, but only with big Conservative government.

He's also given a number of interviews were he talks about how much consensus politics sucks and pines for a single leader with the unilateral power needed to make the big changes he thinks are needed to "fix" society.

In other words, he's a closet Marxist.

This is probably why he is not being hailed by libertarians--most of them realize that as nice as the words sound, their intent is rather sinister.

Source, Stormy?

Source, Stormy?

Scott, I think you should

Scott, I think you should cut Star Wars some slack. Everyone knows they're flawed movies, but we've learned to expect & except these flaws, & judge the movies accordingly.

Godfather III was better than most movies of that year, but compared to the first 2 it was a major disappointment. This was because the first 2 were so brilliant. All of the Star Wars movies were flawed but were still kinda cool. Lighten up a bit.

Part of the magic of the

Part of the magic of the first trilogy was the camaraderie that existed between Luke, Leia and Han and the memorable personalities that the actors were able to inbue in these characters despite the hoakey dialogue and not much better direction.

Still, there was plenty to like about the Phantom Menance and Attack of the Clones. The final battle with Darth Maul
Stunning Visuals ~ from the Queen's Wardrobe to new worlds like Naboo and Coruscant, Wonderful new characters like Qui Gon Jin and Jango Fett
Hilarious characters like Watto and the Diner Creature (what was his name)
Obi-Wan's battle with Jango on the Water Planet

There was also a lot to be disappointed in and I am not talking about the hoaky dialouge ( I actually thinks is quite charming and very Star Wars or even the acting. What was absolutely jarring for me was the lack of a strong, emotional storyline in either film. All the ingredients were there but instead we were served with un-inspiring, unsuspensful plots like the Gun-Gun uprising or Count Dookus' machinations (yawn yawn).

Revenge of the Sith is finally the movie I had been hoping from all along. Beautiful to watch but also with a strong and clear story plot that it never wavered from. It kept getting more and more suspensful and intense as it went along even though everyone knew the ending. It was GOOD!

I'd like to add that

I'd like to add that important story elements were rushed passed while the flying R2D2 sequence in II took up like 5 precious movie minutes. R2D2 flying pissed me off.

Star Wars tries to be everything & it fails. But the good aspects are excellent. Unmatched. It's like a best friend whom you love like a brother, who always backs you up when you're in a fix, loyal, & so forth, but can be a complete jackass sometimes. I love Star Wars.

So what is the deal with

So what is the deal with Anikin? i still dont understand what was the full reason why he turned. somebody help me out here

There were extremely

There were extremely excellent and the best scenes in the movie "Revenge of the Sith".
Good originality and great imagination, great story in this movie!
Here's Photo gallery for Hayden Christensen(Anakin) of "Revenge of the Sith". http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0159789/photogallery-ss-0
I love Star Wars series the most!