What's Your Battle Cry?

This is the coolest argument I've read all day. Roderick Long attempts to reconcile theism and atheism. I'm not sure if it fully satisfies, but it is something worth pondering.

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I enjoyed reading Long's

I enjoyed reading Long's blog post too. His conception of God reminded me of Spinoza. Of course most Theists do not believe in Spinoza's God. Spinoza was put in cherim (ex-communication) for his beliefs.

Micha, Being that you are orthodox (am I right about that?), I'm interested in knowing what your views are regarding this.

Why should I believe god is

Why should I believe god is the 'logical structure of reality?' Couldn't one just say "I believe god is a chair. You agree the chair exists, ergo god exists."?

I think it's pretty damn cool we are experiencing existance with the ability to create a friend and ally with our imagination. But sometimes I wish more people would just put the god thing down for a while and use that brain power for something more worthwile.

It's such a judgement of character. Atheist = cynical crabby ass. No one wants to be the one to say "sorry, Virginia, there is no Santa Claus." So we come up with feel-good philosophies to justify fanciful illusions.

Personally, I think theists are the cynics. They're the ones who think life as it is requires the spice of make-believe for it to taste good.

Mongoose, I was also


I was also reminded of Spinoza when I read the piece. For some reason, though I find the equation of God with the logical structure of reality much more appealing that the equation of God with the entire Universe. The first equation makes it seem like theists and atheists are really talking about the same thing; the second question does not.

I live in an Orthodox Jewish community, but I have come to doubt the existance of God. I can definitely sympathize with Spinoza, although I am not too afraid of being put in cherim.

Titus, I agree. The first


I agree. The first thing I thought of when I read Long's argument was, "Why do we need two words to describe exactly the same thing?" But the more I think about it, the more it seems that Long's argument might be useful for describing how different people look at the same thing but see different realities.

Micha, I can definitely


I can definitely sympathize with Spinoza, although I am not too afraid of being put in cherim.

I'm a big fan of Spinoza, not only was he brilliant, he also had major balls. One of the great advantages of living in modern times is that we don't really have to worry about things like cherim.

I like you, grew up in an orthodox community. I also have come to doubt the existence of God (as described in the Torah, not necessarily Spinoza's God). And to top it off, I'm also an anarchist. I thought I was the only one! Apparently we have a lot in common. Maybe we should get together some time to learn some Gemara :)


Heh, anarchist-athiests-who-used-to-be-Orthodox-Jews-of-the-world-unite!

Actually, I know of one other person who would fit the above description, but he is more of a lefty anarchist.

I think our tent should be

I think our tent should be big enough to include him too. Don't you think? :)